JS: Well I had a couple of friends down there. One of them was Paula Carlson who went on to become the lead signer for what was that band? They were huge. The name of the band escapes me right now. "The Bed You Made for Me", "Whiskey, If You Were a Woman". Umm, oohh, what's the name of that band? I'll remember it in a minute. But anyway, her and her boyfriend at the time and another friend of mine were all, ah, kind of semi-connected in Nashville. Paula had been singing backup for Gail Davies and she got me an audition with Gail Davies and I got my first road gig as a bass player with her, Gail Davies, who was a popular country artist at the time. I bounced around with some backup bands and playing bass for Vince Gill and Nicollete Larson. I actually started working with Poco in 1985.

DL: Vince Gill was in uh,

JS: He was in Pure Prairie League but he also, he went on to be one of the top feature artists.

DL: He was really big. Do you have any secrets for any new songwriters that might be traveling to Nashville to , like, try to live their dream? Like once they get there, what's a good thing for them to do?

JS: Umm, well there's a few things. There's an organization called NSAI the National Songwriters Association, uh the Nashville Songwriters Association. And their whole purpose is to help get new songwriter's music heard. There are places like the Bluebird Café that have a song showcase for new waters. You go there and you try out and they have a show once a week for new songwriters. Plus the songwriting community there is so vibrant, ah active. I believe there's no place in the world that's a better place to learn about songwriting.

DL:A lot of songwriters down there, a lot of ...

JS: yeah, it's like actors in LA.

DL: Yeah it's the place to go for the experts in the business.

JS: Yeah, more than likely the waiter that brings you your food, the guy who fixes your car, everybody is a songwriter.

DL: (chuckles) Right!

JS: Gail Davies actually had a cop pull her over for speeding and pitched her a song, while he was giving her a ticket.

DL: (Laughs) You said you started working with Rusty Young and Paul Cotton in 1985. How did you get connected with them?

JS: George Grantham was in the band to o, then. I got called to do an audition. Like I said, I was working with some other folks so my name was in a pool for bass players around town. So yeah my name was in the pool and I went to do an audition and well got the job.

DL: Were you the, uh, I've seen some pictures of that era. Were you, uh, the guy that has kinda like the curly...

JS: curly kinda hair?

DL: hair?

JS: yeah (laughs)

DL: Do you remember any of the gigs that you played back in that timeframe. Because in 1985, I believe was the last time I saw Poco in the Rochester, NY area. And I knew that Rusty and Paul were in the band and I could recognize those guys when I went to the show but I didn't have any idea who the other drummer or the bass player was Do you ever have any recollections of playing with them in Rochester, NY at place called, ah what the, Red Creek Inn.

JS: You know not specifically. But ,ah, I mean I might but I don't connect it with the named Red Creek Inn...

DL: And my memory could be pretty hazy say from 20 years ago.

JS: Yeah, right. Why don't you take a break and eat your food.

DL: Ok, thanks.

DL: So, umm, you started working with Poco in 1985, when did you actually form Great Plains?

JS: Well, I worked with Poco 85, 86, and into 87 and 87 was when they started talking about putting the original band back together, Poco. And I decided I wasn't part of that the original Poco. So things started to slow down with Poco and I started poking around, I had been writing songs all along, and started talking to Brent Maher who produced The Judd's records and was already an established producer in Nashville. And, ah, he started getting interested in some of my songs and I was also playing with Michael Johnson on the road. I don't know if you are familiar with him.

DL: Just from your website.

JS: "Bluer than Blue" and "This Night Won't Last Forever" both were hits in the 70's and 80's. I was playing in his band and he was doing a country album and Brent Maher was producing it. So I kinda got to know Brent through that association and Brent really like Michael's road band. And, ah, in fact, Michael's road band became Great Plains. Brent started liking my songs and this band and we went in and did some exploratory recording in the studio and it just sort of came out of that and took a couple of years to really kinda jell. Umm, in fact right when we were about to record was when I got the call to go and finish the Legacy tour with Poco. So I went with that tour and when I came back is when we really got serious about Great Plains.

DL: Who left that tour that you took his place?

JS: Richie.

DL: Oh, you took Richie's place.

JS: Yeah, I did, well, I didn't really take his place. I just filled in on some the guitar parts and some the harmony parts. He did the first leg of the tour and then dropped out and Rusty called me.

DL: Umm, let me ask you a little bit about the technical side of writing songs. Because I'm not a technical songwriter.

JS: Sure.

DL: and I don't know a lot about it, umm, and you've done it for a probably a good portion of your life.

JS: That's right!

DL: I've always wondered, when you're writing a song, do you actually write the music like using the music staff and ya know putting the notes in there and ya know just doing all the music theory type stuff. Or is it that you play on your guitar, get some lyrics together and, ya know, have the song come out and have someone transcribe, what you're playing, to a music sheet.

JS: Well, ah, actually kinda neither.

DL: Ok.

JS: Most of what I do never ends up on music ... staff. I know I little bit about theory but not very much and I don't really use it when I write. I just sort of write from feel. So I just kinda, ya know, it varies sometimes, I'll write lyrics first, sometimes I'll write music and just put them together. I do a lot of co-writing also. But it's all just sort of by ear, it's not, ah it's not all put down on staff paper.

DL: Would you say that's generally the case for most people you come across in your industry?

JS: Yes. I would. Part of the reason music is so popular is because the it's almost language of music, the staff and documentation, is a specialized language and pop and rock music allow, ya know, Joe on the street to write music. They don't have to do that. They can just sing into like a cassette recorder. It stays.

DL: Another question along that line, which might sound a little naïve, ah, coming from somebody that really doesn't know music and stuff. I was just wondering what you thought. I've always wondered, I've watched rock bands play and they've always known what to play at any given time in, say, a two to three hour set of music. Now if you watch some of the philharmonic orchestras and they have their sheet music sitting in front of them and they have the conductor standing up there. Why do you think those guys need that kind of prodding to play their music and the rock and rollers just kinda seem to, I dunno, live their music or something?

JS: We just learn it. I mean it's memory. It's like memorizing your lines as a stage actor versus reading your lines off a prompter for a television actor or something. You just learn it and memorize it. That's just the way you do it.

DL: Umm, like I said before I don't consider myself a creative type person. Do you have any other creative hobbies that you would consider yourself good at, like drawing or poetry, things like that?

JS: Ah, yeah, um, Photoshop is really a kind of hobby for me and I just got some computer recording software that I really enjoy. I've been enjoying the computer a lot. There are so many things that can be done on a computer.

DL: Do those endeavors in those different creative areas help you in your songwriter role?

JS: Ah, um, I don't know if I can make a direct line but I think anything that allows you to be creative is probably gonna help keep the channels open. Because song ideas, any kind of creative thing comes from out there somewhere. Who knows, I do everything I can to try keep the channels open and not get in the way.

DL: I was just wondering because sometimes when I try to be creative I try to bring something into my mind that I can visualize so that maybe I can write about it. I can't seem to see any thing in my mind. Do you see anything like in your mind when you're writing music? Or is it more from the heart and feeling?

JS: Umm, I guess I do have a real strong belief that it comes from the beyond somewhere, ya know and best thing I can do is relax and get out of the way. Have you ever seen that book "Writing Down the Bones"?

DL: Uhh, no.

JS: It talks about, like how you just take a pencil and paper and write for twenty minutes without thinking about what you're writing at all. The idea is that by doing that the creative channel can just be opened up.

DL: Is that what you use when you are songwriting, in the songwriting mode and you get writer's block? Would you use something like that yourself?

JS: That would be helpful or you know meditation or just, you know, one of the things in like in co-writing like it's much easier because you've got two people to bounce ideas off of. When it's just myself I tend to get stopped up a lot.

DL: I find that to be true in my profession too. I do some, ah, programming on computers and sometimes I'll be myself and I would really like to have someone else around me to be able to bounce ideas off of.

JS: Yeah.

DL: But sometimes it just doesn't happen that way.

JS: I think it's easier to make progress with two people. Of course, the downside being if you really have something to say, you need to, you're working with another person, and that might compromise it but there are benefits to both.

DL: It's kinda like working with a group, trying to get consensus on which way you want the song to go and things like that.

JS: Exactly.

DL: How much time do you have?

JS: Uhh, let's see. Maybe about 15 minutes or so...

DL: Ok. I've heard a couple of other musicians, performers say that when they're up on stage doing their 3 minute song it's like performing a 3 minute play because you want to be able to convey some kind of message through your song. Do you ever feel like that?

JS: Umm, gee I don't know that I have. I mean I really try, like I've been talking about, I really try to not think about it. I find that thinking is, it kinda gets in the way. If I can just sort of relax and do what I've been doing for so long because my mind tends to get in my way.

DL: It tends to get in my way sometimes when I try to think about, like I have to think about problems, if you will, like trying to solve problems, Sometimes my brain gets in the way because it doesn't allow the creative process to solve like different problems.

JS: Yeahhh.

DL: I guess I can relate to that.

JS: It's like the answer to all these things is out there if I let myself be open to it. But I do, my mind does get in the way and try to sort it all out, and control it, and arrange it and stuff and then I get in trouble. So I have to try and back off.

DL: You have a home recording course on songu.com. Is that correct?

JS: Yes.

DL: What can people expect when they go to that course? What kinds of things are they going to learn?

JS: Well it's an entry level course. It's like if you don't know much about home recording and you want to be able to get started. It's some of the basics, the basic information about the equipment and about the methods and about what to avoid. It's like I said, an entry level course. I guess my hope was that you get someone without any experience could come home from the store with a recorder and a box or whatever and be able to set it up and arrive at a demo on CD that they could play for friends and whatever.

DL: Do you have any other courses on songu?

JS: No they've asked me to a couple others but I haven't had time. So no, just the one for now.

DL: The last time we talked you were working on a solo project. How's that coming?

JS: Well, it's coming slowly. In the interim, I've been really busy this summer with Poco and I've also produced Paul Cotton's new CD that should be out in the next few months.

DL: Is that "The Coast is Clear"?

JS: Yes. So between those things, I really haven't had any time. I hope do it actually in the next few months because the Poco schedule is winding down now. Paul's project is done. So I hope to get it down in the next few months.

DL: Well we hope to see that soon.

JS: What, "The Coast is Clear"?

DL: No. Yours!

JS: Oh, mine (chuckles). Yeah.

DL: Because we've had a lot of Poco music in the last couple of months but we haven't had and Jack Sundrud solo type stuff.

JS: No, we sure haven't (chuckles again) and I'd really like to get that done.

DL: Umm, One last topic.

JS: Yeah.

DL: Umm, today our world is in kinda a lot of upheaval, we have the war in Iraq, we have a country that's divided. Go back to sixties. And back in the late sixties, we had a lot of political type songs that were on the airwaves, trying to get people involved. Do you really think that political or social type songs really make a difference?

JS: I think they could. I'm not drawn to them myself. I guess maybe because I'm older and I fell like I know where I'm at and umm, I don't have any desire to change someone's mind. I think most people know what they want and know where they lie. I don't feel like being controversial. I like to think of music as something that's entertaining, relaxing, enlightening in an emotional and spiritual sense and not as a political tool. But that's just me!

DL: I believe there was one song on one of the Great Plains projects that dealt with the farmers.

JS: Um, um yeah.

DL: Was that anything political in your mind?

JS: I think you're talking about a song called "Homeland" which is actually a single off Kenny Rogers after the 9/11 tragedy. No, it's not political. It's just about pride of place, it's about a family who have been on a piece of property for many years and their willing to protect because it's their home. You could expand it to broader sense to mean the whole country, which is what Kenny Rogers was implying. That's not where it came from. It was a about a little piece of land in Kansas.

DL: Ok, Jack, we're going to be looking for that CD of yours in the next couple of months because we want to hear more music. I just want to thank-you for taking the time to sit down with me, discussing these topics. I really enjoyed it.

JS: Well, thanks Dan. I was glad to do it.

Related Links: For more information on Jack Sundrud and the other organizations mentioned please visit the following links -- Jack Sundrud Official Site | Poco Official Site | Buy Running Horse

(Originally Published on November 13, 2004)